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Original Message
Forum Muslim Schools 
Topic Parnoid Islam 
Author The Reverend Peter M. Hawkins 
Date Created 08/08/2006 09:43:39 
Message Dear Iftikar,
Why do you open yourself and Islam to ridicule by making statements for which you give no foundation?
What is the foundation for the statement "Muslim schools give a strong moral and spiritual out look on the world, the children feel secure", when your own article shows the usual Muslim paranoia "It is an international problem, created by the unjust policies of the West towards Muslims." Or am I to conclude that you did not attend Muslim Schools?
Any well disposed non-Muslim encountering Islam quickly concludes that Muslim Schools have a pooor academic record in the Muslim world, and that the failure of Islam to benefit it's people, causes them to be paranoid about other groups who are doing much better.
My Indian Hyderbadi Muslim chosen son thought it was very funny that I thought that he had been educated in a Muslim Scool and in Urdu. In fact at an early stage English was the medium of instruction, and the school was secular.
Best wishes,
the Reverend Peter M. Hawkins, chosen father of two Muslim sons.

From: Iftikhar ahmad
To: HolySpiritChurch
Sent: Friday, August 04, 2006 5:30 PM
Subject: Citizenship Education

Citizenship Education

Citizenship education has been added to the National Curriculum and its aims to teach pupils: about the origins and implications of the diverse national, regional, religious and ethnic identities in the United Kingdom and the need for mutual respect and understanding. The introduction to the National Curriculum proclaims: promoting pupils’ spiritual, moral, social and cultural development through citizenship.

In an ideal world, Muslims would have integrated schools where people of different faiths could specialize in them within the curriculum. But we are a long way from that and as a consequence I think we have no choice but to have state funded Muslim schools. All the evidence shows that faith schools raise pupils’ confidence and self esteem better than state schools do. If you understand the moral parameters of your own faith properly and are confident in who you are, that makes you a good citizen, it means that you do not feel threatened by others and you are not susceptible to extremism. Muslim schools give a strong moral and spiritual out look on the world, the children feel secure. Muslims are no longer considered to be merely part of the sub-continent immigrant labouring class. They are British and part of the British society in all walks of life. Muslims schools are worthy of support. Parents of private Muslim schools are taxpayers too and are entitled to a share of the education budget. Muslim schools are promoting good citizenship and are promoting a better understanding of people and communities around them.

Islamic school does not foster separatism and hatred. There is ample evidence that state schools foster intolerance, hate and bullying. There is no evidence that Islamic schools indoctrinate children with values that endanger shared society. David Bell, the chief school’s inspector was wrong to say that Islamic schools must do more to promote social cohesion. There is no evidence that there is a link between Islamic schools and terrorism. Islamic education actively discourages terrorism. Muslim parents want their children to keep their faith, culture and languages and not fall into Western way such as binge drinking, yobish culture and loose morals. Muslim schools turned out balanced citizens, more tolerant of others and less likely to succumb to criminality or extremism. It is the state schools who have been producing intolerance.

Citizenship lessons do not make full sense” unless they are taught within the context of Islam. In the same way Multicultural studies should also be taught in the context of Islam. Just because people do not throw bricks at each other on a daily basis, does not mean everything is rosy in the garden. We do need a common sense of British Identity but it has nothing to do with “common values or shared culture”. We can learn from Ottoman multi ethnic empire which achieved remarkable degree of religious tolerance.

Terrorism is nothing to do with British Muslim community. It is an international problem, created by the unjust policies of the West towards Muslims. Government measures to tackle terrorism are creating a climate of fear among Muslims and risk encouraging Islomophobic attacks. Recent government proposals to screen clerics and close down Masajid were sending out a message that Muslims cannot be trusted.

Iftikhar Ahmad


Topic Re: Parnoid Islam 
Author avalonmuslim 
Date Created 11/08/2006 20:40:26 
Message Salaam alaykum Iftikhar,
I would have to agree with the good Reverend's comment on Paranoid Islam. I think he hits the nail squarley on the head here.
I would also add that as an English convert to Islam, (and there are more of us that you would believe), Urdu has absolutly no place whatsoever on a curriculum for my five children, or my three great grandchildren.
My, admitedly limited, experience of "Muslim Schools" whilst living in London, is that I would not send a pet dog to be trained there, let alone any child to be "educated" there.
They are yet another mechanism of control, endoctrination of the worst elements from "Islamic" society, and the stamping out of any possibility of spiritual undertsnading or growth.
These people, predominantly from the Indo-Pak sub-continent have abosultly no interest whatsoever in integrating with mainstream British society, and it is just another way of maintaining the getto mentality beyond the present generation. God spare us their efforts!
Many salaams,

Abdur-Rahman Raines,
Topic Re: Parnoid Islam 
Author The Khyberman 
Date Created 12/08/2006 18:05:09 
Message Touche!

Well said, Mr. Glastonbury.

Problem is, Ifty will not respond to you or any of us. All he ever does is spam other people's websites with his version of terrorism.

'Policies of the West'? For your information Mt Iftikhar, you ARE the West now. You eat food in Britain, you earn your living (or claim benefits, more likely) in Britain, you live on British soil, have sworn allegiance to the Crown, once your asylum claim was accepted, and now you want to turn this into the very place you ran away from?

Get real. Get a job and pay some taxes for a change.

The Khyberman
Topic Re: Parnoid Islam 
Author The Reverend Peter M. Hawkins 
Date Created 13/08/2006 09:46:41 
Message Dear Iftikar,
My oldest Muslim Son is an Iraqi Kurd and is twentyfive years of age. He lives here in order not to be told what to do! He asked my wife and I to be his parents in England. He was badly tortured at the age of fourteen by the Authorities in Iraq and his elder brother was killed. He fled to a Christian State, rather than the Muslim State of Saudi Arabia, because there he would have been handed back to the Iraqi Authorities, who would then have killed him.
My youngest Muslim Son is a Hyderabadi Mussalman from Andhra Pradesh and he is twenty three years of age. I paid for the latter part of his education at Osmania University, after he asked me to be his father in January 2003 in Golconda.
I know more Quranic Arabic than either of them.
The younger one and I converse in Urdu/Hindi, from time to time.
Your paranoia about non-Muslims implies that it would be unwise to have many Maintained Muslim Schools in this Kingdom.
Your inability to construct a coherent argument based upon facts promotes the impression that those asking for Muslim Schools are poorly educated.
Your poor ability to write in the English Language again suggests that your pet hobby horse is simply due to ignorance.
Best wishes,
the Reverend Peter M. Hawkins.

----- Original Message -----
From: Iftikhar ahmad
To: Peter Hawkins
Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 10:53 PM
Subject: Re: Citizenship Education


There is no difference between Hindu mentality and English mentality. Your friend ship is worse than your enmity. You have no right to be the father of two Muslim children. They should be fostered by a Muslim family so that they could learn Arabic and Urdu to develop Islamic Identity. There is no place for a native teacher in a Muslim school because a teacher is a role model and non_muslim teacher can't be a role model for a Muslim child. It is a crime against humanity to deprive a Muslim child from a bilingual Muslim teacher.


Topic Re: Parnoid Islam 
Author Abdur-Rahman Raines 
Date Created 13/08/2006 13:13:49 
Message Aha! So now we have teased out of you your true colours Iftikhar, and the true nature of your foul bigoted and racist heart, so typical of many born Muslims with absolutely no spiritual link to their religion, but undertake its practice as a set of rules, regulations, and observations written in stone, with no spiritual element whatsoever!

You are stereotypical (if not a cliché) of exactly what Isa, (Jesus the Son of Mary, born with out earthly father, and the ruhullah – very essence of God) came to denounce the Jewish Nation for 2,000 years ago, and the Seal and Pride of all Creation Muhammad Mustafa came to perfect.

Shame upon you Iftikhar for attacking a man of the cloth like this, in his undertaking to raise two boys as Muslim! Who are you to tell him what rights he has and has not got in this society? What tradition in Islamic culture and society are you following? Where is your adhab? Read your history Iftikhar, especially Ottoman history, if you want to learn something of religious and cultural tolerance, and how the Ottoman Turks treated and respected the ahli-kitab - people of the book, and other cultures.

It is a sad fact that Muslims do not rush forward to adopt vulnerable young Muslims who arrive in this country that they end up being adopted by people of other faiths or no faith whatsoever. What have you done, or any of your type, to adopt vulnerable young Muslims who have no blood ties with you? Speaking from experience (I have adopted and raised two Asian children of no blood relation to me whatsoever who are no fine young adults following careers), that when Buckinghamshire Social Services pleaded with the Muslim communities based around Aylesbury and High Wycombe to foster children in order to maintain religious and cultural links, only one family out of the ten thousand targeted stepped forward. This was in the light of great financial incentives as well.

Shame upon you Iftikhar, and your breed!

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