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Original Message
Forum Muslim Schools 
Topic Muslim schools 
Author Neelam Pankhania 
Date Created 25/03/2003 23:35:33 
Message Personally, I dont think that there is a need for muslim schools. We have Saturday schools where we are reassured about our faith and individual female and males in the U.K. have a strong understanding of their faith and culture and want to protect their identity. Many muslims I know pratise their faith but however, do not know the history of Islam and how it has spread this is very important and I feel that there must be some teaching of all faiths especially Islam and made compulsory in the British education system. Having faced many negative reactions about Islam its time something was done. I still feel that muslim schools may divide the community up where as we should be working with and mingling with all types of people and I guess getting on with each other as oppposed to seperation.  
      
Responses
Topic Re: Muslim schools 
Author Lea  
Date Created 11/06/2003 23:05:04 
Message the commmunity will not be divided, how many people are there that do not understand the difference between asian and muslim, when you say split the community you mean white and asian. A muslim school would bring muslim children white and asian a safe place for them to learn together 
 
 
Topic Re: Muslim schools 
Author Ian Upton 
Date Created 13/06/2003 13:45:50 
Message Iftikhar,

You have some interesting views but I totally disagree with your perception that all Muslim Children "Demand" Muslim schools.

I have experience totally the opposite. I went to school alongside a number of Muslim friends who the majority (More than 75%) have been successful and are now following academia, are doctors, or have other highly successful careers. Many studied hard and have been successful and happy in their careers. In comparison to Non Ethnic minorities there were a higher percentage of top grade students from our school who were specifically from ethnic minority backgrounds.

As for your comments: “There is no arrangement for the younger generation to learn Arabic and Urdu languages in schools. They are unable to read and understand Islamic literature and poetry making them cut off from their cultural roots.”

Why should there be?

I would have liked the opportunity to learn these languages as everyone else would but we never had lessons available in school for many different languages such as Polish , Chinese, Cantonese and so forth in our schools. Can you tell me how many schools in Pakistan teach Polish, Chinese or Cantonese to Non Ethnic minority children?

You said “They should blame themselves for ignoring the needs and demands of the Muslim children who need state funded Muslim schools with Muslim teachers”

If I were to go to any Asian continent with my children to find a better life for them I would fully expect I would adapt to the way of life in that country. I certainly would not start campaigning to force my ideals onto that country so it would have to cater for my every need and whim making demands because of my beliefs.

The only discrimination I see is the persistent and growing discrimination of NON Ethnic, English, Heterosexual Males who are persistently disadvantaged in today’s politically correct mad England whilst in fear of raising their country’s flag and speaking out about it because they fear they will be labelled a racist. And before you try to label me one of my Muslim Asian school friends is the godfather of my child.
 
 
 
Topic Re: Muslim schools 
Author Freda Watts 
Date Created 14/06/2003 18:52:23 
Message Good Evening,

As a Spiritualist I posted the article below in a reply to a post made by Iftikhar in a forum I am a member of. I do hope that I will not offend anyone with this post, for I assure you that is not my intention at all - I feel that the world would be a better place for us all to live in if we could only make to effort to live in harmony with each other and show respect to the differences we each have in the process.
_____________________________________

Whenever the topic posted is of Muslim origin, it seems to lead to an all out war, which is very sad.
Unfortunately for whatever reason someone settles in a foreign country, out of respect for the peoples of that country - whilst still being able to follow many of their own customs, there are rules and regulations to adhere to.

I would expect if I moved abroad, for such etiquette to apply -to me - and, whilst I would wish my children to be taught according to the methods of the country concerned, I would also want them to maintain part of their mother tongue and continue with certain traditions etc.

In other words I would want the best of both worlds.

Without wishing to sound harsh, this is how it seems to be expected - to me - with the topic under discussion. Why one wonders did the families concerned settle here in the first place, because surely they were aware of the 'dangers' of what they are now facing ? You cannot really expect to take over the country you 'adopt' and have them turn their rules upside down to accommodate your likes and dislikes.... you are meant to fit in and adapt - to a degree.

For example: If I was to move anywhere that was alien to my way of living ( without quoting any particular area), can you for one minute imagine the uproar it would cause to voice the opinions such as this gentleman has. With such a 'liberal' policing as some countries have, I would be thrown into prison and be lucky to see daylight for a few years ... or even worse, as the recent conflict has unearthed.

Going back 55 years, when it was religious instruction in my school, Catholics and other denominations were excused from our classes - so nothing has changed in that respect. But if children are seeing and behaving in a western fashion, then the ultimate responsibility rests with the Muslim parents for being here in the first place. It is like trying to shut the stable door when the horse has bolted.

To an outsider of the Muslim faith, it is very hard to understand the family values that so much store is set on, and is expected of the young. In the same situation I too would want to escape from the confines of something I could not accept. I cannot blame the girls for running away when it is something that would have caused me the same problem, as a free spirit.

It is wrong to expect schools to be handed over, but I do think that more should be done to teach Islamic language, perhaps in all schools and for all children - as Latin and French etc are taught. English and Muslim speaking teachers should be employed for this purpose.

We are at the moment at cross purposes with many Islamic/Muslim fundamentalists who are causing mayhem around the world, if children are integrated to understand, if only in small part, the customs of other countries - then surely it would bode well for the future of our world ?
Children are the new generation, and could be the stepping stones to world peace. Applying different cultures into the school curriculum, allowing all to still practise and follow their own faiths too, has to be a better idea than for people to continually be at each others throats trying to achieve the impossible.

What chance have the children got for the future if their peers cannot reach any kind of a compromise ? We should be setting examples for the betterment of society as a whole not just for individual communities.

 
 
 
Topic Re: Muslim schools 
Author Ian Upton 
Date Created 20/06/2003 12:03:12 
Message Freda,

I disagree with your comment "but I do think that more should be done to teach Islamic language, perhaps in all schools and for all children"

Why don’t we teach polish and Chinese in our schools then?

We have a vast polish and Chinese communities and they have integrated perfectly well.

They have demanded nothing and have provided valuable skills whilst adopting English values alongside their own.

The Chinese festivals in Manchester are attend by all races and religions. Never once have they demanded we set up Chinese schools or teach Chinese in all schools.

I also Disagree with "We are at the moment at cross purposes with many Islamic/Muslim fundamentalists "

We are not at cross purposes... the Government is and government don’t always represent the view of the majority of the public. Instead they appear to hoodwink the public into their way of thinking just like Tony Blair did when he helped invade Iraq. We might disagree with their chosen course of actions IE suicide bombing, crashing planes into buildings and so forth but they are entitled to their beliefs just as I am.

True harmony will only ever be achieved when we allow each other to have their say without violence.

There will always be two sides to a coin and presenting your argument for and against a case is fine as long as you back up your case with truthful facts not half-baked lies and manipulated documents.

If you think The invasion of Iraq was about anything other than America Securing an Oil supply then you would be a bigger fool that Tony Blair for ignoring his Electorate.
 
 
 
Topic Re: Muslim schools 
Author adel mozammel 
Date Created 21/07/2003 00:05:57 
Message One of the main purposes for Muslim children to learn Arabic in schools is not only for them to learn about their culture and read poetry but to understand what their Creator is asking from them and to show their purpose in life.

Unlike other languages Arabic is a living language and is the same as it was 1400 years ago when the Quran was revealed and to this the Quran has not been altered.

The desire for Muslim schools to teach and give knowledge to children that is not only secular and "Godless" but to show them there is a God and he must be obeyed.

The language is a means to a higher plane. Muslim schools should cater for all the secular subjects as Science and Humanities, however they should be taught with an Islamic perspective which basically means that they should always bear in mind that their is One Creator who has the power behind everything instead of being heedless of him.

It is not a case of imposing our Islamic beliefs upon everyone but to bring an awareness of God into education.
So the knowledge of God is in conjuction with the mordernist education system, as we all must realise that all Knowledge is ultimately from God. 
 
 
Topic Re: Muslim schools 
Author Ian Upton 
Date Created 22/07/2003 14:06:00 
Message Abel,

You said :-

"The desire for Muslim schools to teach and give knowledge to children that is not only secular and "Godless" but to show them there is a God and he must be obeyed"

You have managed to provide a perfectly valid argument for teaching arabic in muslim schools whilst clearly explaining your reasoning and guess what?

You managed to do all that in English.

Brilliant and Well done.

Now go and read my argument against religious schools in the other threads.
 
 
 
Topic Re: Muslim schools 
Author Ian Upton 
Date Created 22/07/2003 14:06:00 
Message Abel,

You said :-

"The desire for Muslim schools to teach and give knowledge to children that is not only secular and "Godless" but to show them there is a God and he must be obeyed"

You have managed to provide a perfectly valid argument for teaching arabic in muslim schools whilst clearly explaining your reasoning and guess what?

You managed to do all that in English.

Brilliant and Well done.

Now go and read my argument against religious schools in the other threads.
 
 
 
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