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Original Message
Forum Muslim Schools 
Topic Pakies vs Porkies 
Author Iftikhar Ahmad 
Date Created 17/01/2004 08:33:56 
Message Established 1981
London School of Islamics
An Educational Trust
63 Margery Park Road London E7 9LD
Email: info@londonschoolofislamics.org.uk
Tel/Fax: 0208 555 2733 / 07817 112 667

Pakies vs Porkies
Lord William Garrith once said, we must learn to recognize and infact celebrates differences. The day we are all the same, we will all be dead. I wish that the British establishment should have the same feelings and thoughts for those who are different from them. British education system is the main culprit who does not recognize diversity and choice and believes in integration.

David Blunkett made a provocative calls for Muslim Imams to learn English. His comments seem to be a post – September 11 form of Paki-bashing. It will help combat the “clash of cultures” suffered by young British Muslims. The religious, social, emotional and spiritual language of Muslims is Arabic/Urdu and not English that has limited vocalbury. English poetry does not have the same rhythm as Arabic/Urdu poetry. Last year he provoked anger when he called for Muslim parents to speak English at home to prevent “schizophrenia” between the generations. A fifth of the US population does not speak English at home. The price of ignoring children’s bilingualism is educational failure and social exclusion. New research shows that bilingual children do better in schools than monolingual. Muslims should look for arranged marriages inside the UK. Muslim should adopt British norms of acceptability; that means dating, early sex out side marriage, alcoholism and drug addiction. This is an infringement of human rights. People have the right to make their own choice. The shared values of Islam and the west are far stronger than their differences. Islam is founded on values that resonate with the values of most people in the world concerned with social justice.

Now European languages are being introduced at Primary schools as an experiment in 19 LEAs where Muslim pupils are in majority. It is an extra burden on Muslim children. Primary schools with native children should be used for the teaching of European languages for experimental purposes. The world today is so multi-ethnic and so multilingual that it would be a shame if Britain gets trapped in monolingualism.

Islamophobia has been part of western culture since the Crusades, with Saddam and Osama only the latest in a long line of Arab bogymen. For centuries the Arab has played the role of villains, the barbarian lurking at the gates of civilisation. Muslims are citizens of the tiny global village having mastery in English as an economic language, Arabic as a religious and Urdu as social and emotional language for the Muslims of the Sub-continent. The people of Wales has the right to send their children to state funded schools with Welsh as the medium of instruction, similarly Muslim parents has the right to send their children to state funded Muslim schools with English as a medium of instruction. Muslim schools foster confidence and self respect, not hatred and intolerance. The argument against Muslim schools is based on ethnic stereotypes and ignorance. The conflicts of Northern Ireland have more to do with power and economic relations than faith schooling. Mr. David Blunkett should concentrate on solving the problems faced by the Muslim community rather than pressurising and intimidating them to become Porkies.
Iftikhar Ahmad

Topic Re: Pakies vs Porkies 
Author guest 
Date Created 09/02/2004 06:29:14 
Message Learning a modern language in secondary school such as French is such a burden on Muslim pupils? You are joking, its just another class, as maths or science would be. If you wish an education in England it should be taught in English. You wish to integrate, yet you want special education conditions, completely absurd. 
Topic Re: Pakies vs Porkies 
Author donvan 
Date Created 09/02/2004 14:49:46 
Message Why is it so difficult for Muslims to integrate into the societies they live in? Look at all the countries currently occupied by Muslims. No personal freedoms,no freedom of religion,dictatorship of the cleric class, no Democracy.
This is the world the Islamics would have us live in.
This is no more "Islamaphobia" than "Naziphobia" or "Communophobia", and just as dangerous. Europe has a history of appeasement toward these ideologies.Appeasement
here may result in the destruction of Democratic Europe.
We see French Jews feeling the need to leave France, Jews
in other countries in Europe feel under seige by this Nazi redux.Yet we struggle with ways and means to integrate
the Muslims into our societies. It may not be possible.
Islam is the antithesis of Democracy. In the Marxist
dialectic paradigm this would result in a synthesis (i.e.
integration). History,however, says it can't be done. 
Topic Re: Pakies vs Porkies 
Date Created 21/02/2004 22:58:31 
Topic Re: Pakies vs Porkies 
Author anon 
Date Created 22/04/2007 23:54:53 
Message "Muslim should adopt British norms of acceptability; that means dating, early sex out side marriage, alcoholism and drug addiction."
Mate, sort your life out. You want to be taken seriously and not get stereotyped as "another terrorist bomber or dictator", so dont tar all British people with the same brush. You understand the concept of stereotypes clearly in your final paragraph,
"The argument against Muslim schools is based on ethnic stereotypes and ignorance." yet seem to fail to take a step back to assess how you are similarly having a negative view of British people.

My final thought is that you seem to dislike british people and the establishment that is in place - my suggestion is that, if you dont like it go somewhere else.

I have the deepest respect for all religions, faiths, cultures and support diversity as its one of the things that make this country great but in response to your arguement I believe that if someone is living in the UK they could at least learn the language and be able to speak it with some degree of fluency. 
Topic Re: Pakies vs Porkies 
Author alythia 
Date Created 27/06/2007 15:10:24 
Message salam to all
im a revert muslim and i have realised that if we as muslims take ourselves completly away from society we will become outcasts, i wont have anyone take me away from islam or my hijab but i do feel that if you come to another country then try to learn at least a little of the language as language is infact the main block for most people and limits possible friendships, when i see my family i have to try and speak greek (mums side) an when we go jamaica(dads side) mum doesnt stop speaking english.what ever country we live in we ought to try and live in peace and accept others beliefs, languages was invented in the first place so we as human beings could be divided and conqured and be distant from each other, lets not let something so simple to amend break us down and prevent possible life long friendships, i have many forign friends some are somali and they talk english to me and i have tried to learn the language also,its a lovely way of showing respect to another and that you want be a friend, when you go abroud u are welcome more when u try and speak the language, my dad goes ti land sumtimes and he tries the lingo and they love it and respect him for it!!! well im sure you see where im comming from any way :) 
Topic Re: Pakies vs Porkies 
Author Frank 
Date Created 18/09/2007 12:59:11 
Message You say "Now European languages are being introduced at Primary schools as an experiment in 19 LEAs where Muslim pupils are in majority. It is an extra burden on Muslim children".

Then you go onto comment "The world today is so multi-ethnic and so multilingual that it would be a shame if Britain gets trapped in monolingualism".

What point are you exactly trying to make here as it seems to me that you are contradicting yourself. 
Topic Re: Pakies vs Porkies 
Author Administrator Administrator 
Date Created 18/09/2007 14:11:46 
Message Salaam

Bilingual Muslim children need to learn Arabic, Urdu and other community languages to keep in touch with their cultural roots and enjoy the beauty of their literature and poetry. They also need to learn Standard English to follow the National Curriclum and go for higher studies and research to serve humanity. They need to learn All such languages right from Nursery level by bilingual Muslim teachers as role model.

A Muslim is a citizen of this tiny global village, he/she does not want to be a part of notoriously monolingual Brit. 
Topic Re: Pakies vs Porkies 
Author aki 
Date Created 06/10/2007 09:29:11 
Message Sir,
Your article is well written. It is interesting to see how much of the response here is by people who seem to be exposing racism within them and taking things you mention out of the context rather then evaluate what you have written holistically.
To give two examples:
[1] You mentioned that
"Muslim should adopt British norms of acceptability; that means dating, early sex out side marriage, alcoholism and drug addiction. " - The comment here is correct because although the British society or a part of it may strongly dislike some of these norms e.g. drug addiction it still remains accepted as something that is normal. - the norms may be disliked but remain accepted.

[2] "Now European languages are being introduced at Primary schools as an experiment in 19 LEAs where Muslim pupils are in majority. It is an extra burden on Muslim children." - it is the issue of an experiment being carried out in schools specifically containing muslim majority that makes it a burden upon those pupils who are being made the guinea pigs.

A regular response to the british ethnic minority to leave the country! why? It is a racist comment! if there is something you think is right and i think is wrong we should work together to discuss and debate and argue our points to bring about a better society.
Topic Re: Pakies vs Porkies 
Author Vandersar 
Date Created 19/11/2007 22:07:28 
Message What depresses me about some of these comments is that Iftikhar and the person who wrote the last reply seem to have a completely arrogant view of the superiority of Islamic culture. On what is he basing his stupid view that the honour killing of a girl in England would have been prevented? Perhaps he should read this article.


Further to this article above, these children are not guinea pigs, the information given by Iftikhar is false. This is the list of the LEAS
Barking & Dagenham Birmingham Brighton & Hove
Bury Coventry East Riding Enfield
Hammersmith & Fulham Hampshire Kent
Knowsley Lancashire Liverpool Oldham
Norfolk North Tyneside Nottinghamshire
Richmond upon Thames Sheffield

Birmingham, Oldham, Bury and Coventry have a large Muslim populace, the rest have an average Muslim population or some like North Tyneside, Richmond and Kent have a relatively small one. Bradford or Leeds are also not part of this list. His information is false.


Introduction of primary languages is happening in every part of the country as it will be compulsory for all primary schools by 2010. Also, there has been a massive upsurge in the amount of community languages offered in schools in areas with high Asian intake. Offering European languages is broadening their minds and skills and giving them a better chance of jobs in the future.

Islamic schools run by Muslims would be the social equivalent of burying your head in the sand. How do you hope to get respect or understanding when you want to shut out everyone different from you? You are not being forced to adopt British way of life, you are being asked to accept that if you want to live here, things are different from Pakistan or Saudi Arabia. Yes Britain is far from perfect but Islamic states have their problems too (recent events in Pakistan clearly illustrate this)

As to the comparison between Wales and Islam, you seem to be unclear as to whether you want these schools for religion or language. If it is for language then why can't you accept Sikhs and Hindus who may also speak Urdu at home? Church of England and Catholic schools allow Muslims to study at their schools, why is it Muslim schools should have the right to shut their doors to other faiths.

I work in a school where 95% of the pupils are Muslim girls. They are proud of their faith, they dress modestly, they are generally polite and they are tolerant of pupils from other religions. The vast majority do not drink, take drugs or engage in sexual activity. They learn Spanish or French or Urdu as well as reading Arabic at Mosque and speaking Urdu or Punjabi at home. They use English at school and with their friends. They can see the bad side of British culture but they choose not to become involved. They are not arrogant or suggest that they are better than anyone else, they just act in a way that shows maturity and a willingness to tolerate other cultures whilst maintaining their own beliefs and culture. They are the best advert for their culture and religion and Iftikhar should be ashamed for suggesting that Muslim children need to be segregated from others. It is with the parents and teachers that he should put his trust, not segregation and alienation.
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